type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Been thinking about converting to type 3 brakes on the back of the bus (straight axle conversion) for a little extra braking power, but want to make sure I'll still be able to get the wheel on/off fairly easily.

Right now I have 68+ beetle four lug drums with adapters to run my wide 5 rims.  I'm running stock 14" bus rims (lame I know   ) with 195/75/14 tires.  It's currently a very tough squeeze getting my wheels on and off, takes a lot of wiggling, but they do go on and off.  My adapters are just a tad over 1/4" wide which seems to be the magic number.  If the drum/adapter combination were any wider, I'd have a harder time getting the wheel on/off, if it was any narrower, my tires would be rubbing the springplate.

So my question is, how wide is a type 3 drum compared to a type 1 drum?  I know they are about an inch larger in circumference, but don't know how much wider they are (ie...will my tire sit closer or further away from the springplate or inner wheel well).  

I can always change to a 185/75/14 tire if needed to give just a tad more room, without really affecting the rpms significantly.  Not really looking to change to 15" rims though as that would be a little pricey right now.  

Anybody possibly got a 4 lug type 1 drum and a wide 5 type 3 drum they could measure for me?  Found this picture of the two online, and it looks like the size difference is about what I need, but I don't have much wiggle room, so I'd like to be sure.  

Darryl has Type 3 drums on the back of his green and white bus, with a straight axle swap, but he's running 15" wheels- I can't remember if he's got 67 or 68 axles- I've got some Type 3 drums I can measure- but the cool thing is that you can get them in 4 lug (newer style) or wide 5 (older style) if clearance is an issue

The Type 3 shoes and wheel cylinders are huge when compared to a type 1- the Type 3 was a much bigger and heavier car- I'd really consider the swap on the braking merits alone   

Looks like from the floor to the wheel mounting surface on the Type 1 is 2 3/8"
from the floor to the Type 3 mounting surface is 2 7/8"


http://www.flickr.com/photos/grifspop/12096584365/

Both drums are 4 lug style

a couple of things to keep in mind:

if you use '68 axles, the drums bolt right up without any machining

if you use shorter axles, you'll have to get the snout on the drums machined down

you'll use the Type 3 backing plates, but the Type 1 axle seals

the newer 4 lug drums are 2 piece- they use a hub and drum and can be removed without taking off the big a$$ axle nuts

the older wide 5 drums are one piece- and they're a little tougher to find- (ask Darryl)

Pete, you rock, thanks so much for the measurements. Looks like its about a half inch difference then, and when you account for the adapters I'm currently using, that difference is actually less than a quarter inch. I have could probably still squeeze the tire on, and if not, I could probably swap to the slightly smaller tire and get the clearance I need, or use the old bottle jack on the axle tube trick to force the spring plate down for removal/install. I've got 68 axles, so I wouldn't need to machine the snouts down, just need to get the drums and backing plates along with the new hardware (wheel cylinders, shoes, etc...)

Guess I'll start trying to slowly locate some parts. Thanks again for the help, I appreciate it!

Use wide five thing drums if you can find a set. Def more braking surface great for those who like to tow a trailer or 1,000lbs of camping gear or parts.

http://www.aircooledvwaddiction.com/index.php

Thanks Jeff, I couldn't get the link to open, but that may just be my work computer, so I'll check at home. Everything I've read said the thing drums still only take the 40mm shoes, but the type 3 drums are supposed to accept the larger 45mm shoes.

No problem anything that gets rid of adapters the better. I have done numerous brake upgrades for bus's most effective and costly are disk brakes up front. best use of your money and no more service to adjust. equal and positive even braking. You get what ya pay for aval for 14 and 15

Oh I've got babystangs up front!  Just want to ditch the adapters in the rear and get a little more stopping power.

Sounds good

ISP West is a great source on Type 3 stuff

http://www.vwispwest.com/pg96/

Bookmarked! Thanks

Simple fix to get more braking power out of what you already have on there. Especially effecitve since you already have discs on the front. Buy a pair of FRONT wheel cylinders for a 68 bug. They'll bolt right on and have more stopping power than the rear cylinders. The BumbleBuggy had the cylinders reversed with fonts in the rear and rear in the front because all the weight of that car was in the rear. Worked great at preventing the front brakes from locking up. The Jolly Rancher is running '69 beetle drums in the rear with FRONT wheel cylinders.

Yeah, I've heard those wheel cylinders do provide more force.  Do you have adapters in the rear Glenn?  I know you've got aftermarket wheels, but can't remember what lug pattern they are.  Also not sure what kind of offset your wheels have, how close are you to the springplate.  I'm really wanting to ditch the adapters, but in order to do so, I'd have to get drums that are wider than the stock beetle drums to avoid rubbing (really rubbing doesn't even describe it, I doubt I could even mount a wheel it would be so close), and if I'm going to do that, I'd like to just upgrade everything to T3.

If all else fails, I'll just get some custom wide drums or wheels with a funky offset and cut the wheel arches for that jersey look that is so in these days.

I'm running four lug sprints (GASP!!! ) that are 5 inches wide. The offset is similar to empi fives. No adapters. 205-65-15s and they just barely rub the lip on the passenger side wheel when I pull the wheel off.

yeah, those wheels are offset to the outside a good bit more than stock rims. I'm a stock rim lover, so I'd like to keep the stockers (maybe stock 15s one day). I'd be smelling rubber for days if I tried to run 205s  

Love my stock 14's

that's what I'm talkin bout!

just do a stock wide 5 type3 wheels and breaks

That's the plan as soon as I can find all the parts.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C31%2D501%2D615%2D211AG

Best option

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D311%2D501%2D615%2DE or this good luck