Engine Overheating

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Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:49 pm

Ok it was a little warm today and on the way home my car seemed like it wanted to cut off when I was stopped at the last few red lights. When I got into my subdivision I let it idle until it cut off. I tried cranking it but it turned over a bit slower. Rolled into my driveway jumped out to check the engine and it was very hot. The Crank pulley was so hot it burned the back of my finger. I also noticed that there was a lot of oil coming out of the bottom of the engine. It leaks but not this fast or bad. It seemed very thin and like it may have fuel in it. I have a fairly new fuel pump.

If it had started leaking bad enough to lower the oil level would that cause it to over heat. I let it cool off and then went back and it cranked right up. I backed the car into the garage and cut it off. The oil level looked good but it was not running. I'm going to change the oil this weekend and see if I can see where the leak is. It maybe the rear seal.

One other thing I've noticed and this was before all this. One night I drove home backed into the garage and it sat for a few minutes. I heard a gurgling/bubbling sound and looked at the glass filter and saw the fuel going back towards the tank. I've never seen this before. The Tank vent tube is open and all. I'm stumped on this one.
Thanks Guys
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by bumblebuggy on Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:40 am

That don't sound good.

"leaking bad enough to lower the oil level "
Yes this would most certainly cause it to overheat. Very slim margin for error in a VW cooling system.

"gurgling/bubbling sound and looked at the glass filter and saw the fuel going back towards the tank"
Sounds like you engine was running hot this day as well. Overly hot engine will cause the gas to do that and also cause hot start issues as well.

So my assumtion is your engine has been running hot for a while and I'm leaning towards a leaky main bearing seal as the culprit based on what I've heard you describing in this post as well as others that I remember.

Clutch chatter = oil on the flywheel/clutch
Hot start issues = overheating causing vapor lock

The thing that bothers me is that the leaky seal could be a symptom of another more serious problem like a main bearing going.

So I say change the oil, get some new plugs, check the timing, make sure all your cooling tin is in place and sealed nicely, reach around the back side of the fan shroud and make sure there is nothing obstructing the intake area, check for play in the crank. After oil change run the car around the block a few times and get it warm. Run a compression check and look for leaks.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:34 pm

Thanks Glen, its not that I'm new to problems like these I just would like to see what you guys think the problem may be. I was thinking along the same lines. I've checked the fan, belt tension and all tins are in place. I'm off the week after Xmas so I'll probably pull the engins and check the seal and clutch. I don't thinlk that its been over heated since I've had it on the road. The hard start will occur after a couple miles, stop and recrank after about fifteen minutes. That is a problem in and of itself. I can deal with that, overheating, different animal.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:37 pm

Ok I'm convinced that fuel is getting into the case. That is mostly fuel puddled up in the head!


Yeah the Seal is leaking!


Clutch Chatter, You tell me, what do I need to do or does this look ok?




Throw out bearing looks like it has the finger pattern in it. When I first installed this new bearing and the motor and drove it for the first time the bearing was making a screeching sound and after a few seconds it stopped but from time to time it will growl a bit, not bad.

Is this the right bearing for this type pressure plate?

Couple other things. My intake is cracked on the back.

Looks like an exhaust leak to me.

I'm sure this is from the crappy Empi header or someone backed into something with the muffler and bent it, warped it just screwed it up!

Yeah its oily under here!
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by meinvw on Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:09 am

I see a few things there, looks like the clutch disk is not seating properly. From the light spots looks like it might be the disk itself, should be even wear on there. Also the throw out bearing, should'nt it have a collar to use with the fingered pressure plate? Did you remove the lower tin in that last pic? With that missing look up between the middle 2 push rod tubes and make sure the deflector is there between the jugs.

Are you running a stock fuel pump? Looks like maybe your float is stuck or an after market pump is to strong. That fuel is pretty oily too. Crankcase pressure or the deflector under the gen stand in put in wrong.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:26 am

First, Yes the deflector tin is installed and no the only tins that are not installed are the bottom 2 tins between the sump and heat exchanger. The tin on the bottom looks to me that it would hold the heat in, I'm sure it is supposed to direct the heat in some direction. I have them but they are bent.

There was no "collar" on the pressure plate. I think the pedal needs to be adjusted, may be pushing in to far. The clips that hold the bearing in are warn so that tells me that it is going out to far. I had the clips that are a "C" looking clip. I got those from CIP and I had to modify them to work, they were to long. But yeah, after pulling it apart I think the pressure plate needs a collar or something. Should I have the flywheel turned before putting it back together? What should be added to that pressure plate at the fingers?

Fuel pump came from Herrell's and I'm going to install a pressure regulator between the pump and carb, set around 1.5 - 2 lbs.

I'm trashing this header it is so screwed up, what brand/type will fit better and not burn my fresh air hoses. Also I need a new doughnut clap kit, good brand/kit.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by Clyde on Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:10 am

You have an early style trans (no sleeve for the throwout bearing).
You're using a late pressure plate which needs the late style throwout bearing and sleeve on the trans.
Cure:
Get an early pressure plate- I'd have the flywheel ground too. And sand the clutch disc- it looks awfully glazed.

Those lower heaterbox tins (the ski shaped ones) are vital in shooting hot air to the rear of the car- with those off, you're allowing the hot air to just sit under the car.

Far as I know all headers burn the paper heater hoses. Just need to bend them a little extra, or plan on replacing them about every other year.

Good luck!
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by JOHNB on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:58 pm

HOW IS THE DEFLECTOR UNDER THE GEN STAND SUPPOSED TO BE INSTALLED I THINK I MAY HAVE MINE IN WRONG.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by meinvw on Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:41 pm

JOHNB wrote:HOW IS THE DEFLECTOR UNDER THE GEN STAND SUPPOSED TO BE INSTALLED I THINK I MAY HAVE MINE IN WRONG.

The raised sections face down, and the flat side of the cresents face the #2 cylinder. Imagine the oil slinging onto it from the crank and it will kinda make sense.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:02 pm

I used the throw out bearing that was on the car when I got it. I never drove the car except to load it on the trailer to haul it home. It is in good shape and has a thick collar on it. I used emory cloth on the flywheel and pressure plate to just kind of clean it up. I haven't driven it because of the intake. Got a new one coming, will be in on the 13th.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by zabo on Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:55 am

not much to add here but you do need a new pressure plate to match that throwout.

one similar to this.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:21 pm

I wanted to give an update on this problem I've had in the past. After the past few days with it being warmer and all I have driven in different conditions even the Interstate to day. I have tried to get right out of the car and feel around in different area(carefully) to see from feel how warm the engine is. Well after adjusting the valves, tweaking the points gap and running Premium I have not noticed a big difference. Well the engine is cooler than the day it overheated, so maybe this problem is gone for now. I really think that fuel in the oil was the real cause of the overheating. The heat came from higher friction due to diluted oil.

The other problem was chatter, still got it and I think it is from the case leaking onto the clutch. This symptom comes and goes. More of a problem on a slight incline. I replaced the front seal(the only seal) but I still have a leak and the chatter.

I think this is what someone was trying to stop by putting all this JB weld on the rear of the engine.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:44 pm

As everyone knows I've been having overheating problems. Well the engine was real hot, it seemed.

I placed a post over on The Samba about my overheating problem. A couple guys have given me some really good ideas. I think the louvers are not large enough to flow air for cooling and for the engine to run. Thus a warm to hot running engine. Well today I got a digital meat thermometer, it has a wire and probe so it will go all the way in to the dip stick opening. To see what temp the oil was running.

Ambient Temp 62-65 deg
I added a Tennis ball on the latch to hold lid open about an inch.
Highest oil temp reading 201 deg.
I felt around the engine like I usually do when I get home and it was noticeably cooler.

Well I set it, the alarm, to 215 deg. It never went off. I stopped a couple times to check to see if it had fallen off the firewall, it has a magnet on the back. 201deg each time I checked. I ran 60-65 when possible and sat at red lights like normal. I'm stoked. I think 201deg falls in line with most VW engines. I was hoping that this thing would run through the hot summer, looks like it just might! Cool
Man he ran so good today! Pur'd like a kitten!


The Digital thermometer....

WalMart $6.50 well worth it!
I checked the alarm and I can even hear it with the engine idling.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by fluxcap on Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:53 pm

You'll definitely get some crazy stares if that thing starts beeping at a redlight! Glad to hear it's running well. See you Saturday.

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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:29 pm

Ok today it was warmer and the oil was cool if you ask me but watch this video and tell me what the fuel is doing.


Now tonight I went out and drove on the interstate for a while and I ran 70 mph for about ten minutes. Got off the interstate stopped to check the oil temp and the fuel was not bubbling like above. The oil temp was 214 deg. Ambient air temp around 72 deg. What would be considered a hot oil temp? Over 220 or 230?

One other thing, the oil leak problem I had was from high crank case pressure. I hooked my hose from the oil filler to the breather cover to act as a vacuum and it has helped. I need an OG oil filler with the tube and then connect a hose to the breather.



Oh Bugga has been running so much better in this warm weather and we have a lot going on this spring and summer. I want to go to these events and enjoy my ride!

Any suggestions would be appreciated!
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:41 pm

Couple other things. I've placed a tennis ball on the deck lid to let more air in to help cool the engine. Actually its to let more air in for the dog house fan shroud.

My fuel line needs to be re routed, right now its close to the pre-heat tube and ran under the aluminum intake on the drivers side. I plan on moving it. Also I'm going to make some stand offs for the deck lid. This will complete the "Ol School" CaLook from my era of Buggin!


See I remember when they put barely dressed women on the pages of Hot VW's!



Ahh the good ol dayz!

With a few more tweaks this baby should be good to go!
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by zabo on Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:16 pm

I still have abt 10 old ones in the basement- was a better mag then Smile
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by Bugman114 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:01 am

just do what i do, take your decklid off, and all the tin that goes around the motor. shouldn't have any overheating issues then lol! . i love the strange looks i get when at a red light. people pointing saying "WTF". i can't tell you how many times the guy next to me stopps way before the red light, just to stare at my motor.
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by rpm750 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:30 am

Well it was hot yesterday, 81 deg or so. I took the lid off before going home and I ran it kind of hard. Got home no fuel bubble and the oil temp was around 194 deg. What a big difference. I need another deck lid to cut holes in and then when it gets cold out I'll swap back to the solid deck lid.

The ride in today was rough. The engine never really got to operating temp. Oil was only 165 deg when I got to work, 48 deg ambient temp. I've been monitoring the problem in varying conditions/situations. I want a decklid, I'm not sure about the stand offs though. Maybe louvers like an old school Street Rod?
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Re: Engine Overheating

Post by Bugman114 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:41 pm

i had stand offs for a while, and they worked pretty good. do you have the thermostat hookd up and all that? I don't. i took all that stuff out. always seems to run good with me, but not sure about temps. been driving like that for aout 2 years no probelms. i keep hearing that if your dipstick is too hot to touch, then its overheating. But my dipstick just gets warm, not hot. So i'm guessing i'm good.
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