Brake Confusion

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Brake Confusion

Post by peregrine67 on Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:53 pm

So I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong when I replaced my rear brakes. They get hot and they pulse when I brake. So I watched this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WimNcK0nBxw
Here's the diagram from the book.

When I did the brake job I just replaced everything in the reverse order that I took it out. Looking at the video and the diagram I'm sure I did not have parts 6,7, and 8; the retaining pins and the springs.
Now here is the confusion. I don't even have holes in my backing plates where these pins are supposed to go. I want to install them to see if that fixes my problem but I don't know what I should do. Should I drill some holes? If so how do I be sure they are in the right spot? Has anybody else had this problem? How necessary are these pins? I've put several thousand miles on the bus without them and haven't had any problems until this brake job.
Suggestions?
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by Grifspop on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:21 pm

Those pins and springs fasten the shoes to the backing plate, while the other springs keep the shoes together until you apply brake pressure. I think those little springs are real important to locate the shoes, that may be the source of your pulsing
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by meinvw on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:17 am

Should be a matter of just linning a bit up in the hole or use a punch to mark where the holes should be. I have a ton of springs/clips and pins if you need any. Have noticed on the kits you buy that the pins are to short so made my own out of nails and a hammer.
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by peregrine67 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:39 am

Thanks guys. I was gonna just drill new holes but I wanted to make sure nobody threw up a red flag. I'll take you up on the offer to pick up some pins and springs, Jerome.
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by ASBug on Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:51 am

So, your saying that the backing plates do not have the holes for the pins?
If so, that would be a real oddity.
I have seen these pins just about rusted in two when they sit for LONG periods of time... As stated, they have like a nail head on them.
I always just replace the little keeper #6 in your diagram in that they are always distorted in some way or fashion...
Get the rears off and put a photo of what is going on.
If the pins are not in, then the shoes will sag and delfect funny in the hub and constantly drag.
Didn't you say you had a real tough time getting the drum off?
This could be why.

KC
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by peregrine67 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:10 am

ASBug wrote:So, your saying that the backing plates do not have the holes for the pins?
If so, that would be a real oddity.
That's what I'm saying. The backing plates don't appear to have any hole in 'em. I crawled under and felt around and it didn't feel like it was a pin rusted into place but it could have been. I also don't recall seeing a broken pin when I had the drums off.
I check the backing plate images from busdepot.com and they don't show any holes there either. http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=211609425PR

ASBug wrote:If the pins are not in, then the shoes will sag and delfect funny in the hub and constantly drag.
Yup, I'm pretty sure that's the problem.

No, the drums actually came off pretty easily this time. It was just after it had parked for so long that I had trouble.


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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by fluxcap on Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:51 pm

Found this post on the samba, it says the holes/retainer set up was eliminated at vin# 214 2 057 730 which I think is around the start of the 74 model year.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73497&highlight=shoe+retainer+brake

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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by peregrine67 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:21 pm

fluxcap wrote:Found this post on the samba, it says the holes/retainer set up was eliminated at vin# 214 2 057 730 which I think is around the start of the 74 model year.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73497&highlight=shoe+retainer+brake
So I don't need 'em?
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by peregrine67 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:24 pm

Thanks for all of your help guys. I've got some pins and springs now. I haven't decided if I'm gonna install 'em yet or not. I think I'll see if I can fix the pulsing without it first. If not I'll drill the holes and put 'em on.
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by fluxcap on Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:00 pm

I no jack squat about bays, so I couldn't tell you if they are needed or not. I guess VW had their reasons for getting rid of them, but that doesn't mean they may not still be helpful. Are you positive it's the rears causing the pulsing?

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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by atye on Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:05 pm

One key thing to remember when doing drum brakes... Always work on only one side at a time. That way, you always have a reference right there in front of you.

Much handier than a drawing, for sure!
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by peregrine67 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:26 pm

fluxcap wrote:Are you positive it's the rears causing the pulsing?

Yeah I'm positive. I had my wife sit in the back and she could hear pretty good where it was coming from. Also the rears got really hot after a 10 mile drive. I replaced the adjusting nuts and bolts while I was in there, too.
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by zabo on Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:44 pm

if it didnt have them i prob wouldnt add them- you should be able to get them working as stock...

Did you get new wheel cylinders? I know some of the repos have a larger slot for the shoes to ride in. tht could be causing them to shift around more than usual.




since they are getting hot i would also check your ebrake cables and make sure you reinstalled those correctly.
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by zabo on Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:48 pm

if its still messed up sat - we can take a look at the show. a little tech break Wink

also check out the bolts that secure the spring plate to the axle -make sure they are tiight
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by peregrine67 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:23 pm

I put new wheel cylinders in last year. Didn't even think about the grooves being a little different.
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Re: Brake Confusion

Post by zabo on Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:58 pm

the groove really shouldn't effect anything- just throwing it out there as a possibilite
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