My leaky engine

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My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:25 am

Many of you on the forum have heard me complain about the leak i just can't find in my engine. So, I have decided to finally piece together the work i have done in the last 6 months in one topic in the hopes that someone will have a new perspective for me.

I have a 1974 Westy with a 1.8L run with a single weber progressive and 009 dizzy. I had a bargain rebuild done by Phil (Bear) of the Full Moon Bus Club about 6 months ago. I describe it as bargain b/c not all NEW parts were used. I has new solid lifters, cams, main bearings, re machined heads (they were already newish when I bought the bus), new seals and gaskets, new oil cooler (original had a hairline fracture)...ect. For the rest of the post I am going to cut and paste a communication i had with Bear....it describes all the work i did this weekend in pinpointing where the leak is located and some of Bear's thoughts as well...the leak is on the 3/4 side..

bear wrote ...

The only thing on that side would be "pushrod tubes" or a "valve cover" leaking, the oil sender shouldn't be leaking(new and checked) and the oil pump(no oil around it) is not leaking, the oil cooler & rear seal at the timing hub, is dry, so that don't leave much. I'm at a loss on it, whatever we find will make us look silly when we find it. One other place we could check is the bolt that holds the oil pick up tube in place, its between the push rod tubes on the 3/4 side, in the center of the engine, deep in a hole. I can send a picture if you don't know where it is. Phil


MY RESPONSE

Bear,
This weekend a buddy and me pressure washed the belly of the beast to assist in discovering where the leak originates. I found the bolt you were talking about (between the pushrod tubes on the 3/4 side) and it was nice and snug. Also, just poking my finger around in there revealed it was clean of fresh oil.

A day after the pressure wash (to ensure it was nice and dry) we fired up the engine, and with James underneath the bus, there was no leak UNTIL I revved the engine up to about 2000-3000 rpm. When the engine revs, the oil pukes out from the right side of cylinder #4 (driver's side cylinder closest to the rear of the bus). It is hard to see exactly where b/c there are many obstructions to our view, but it could also be just above the cylinder. There is NO oil coming from the top of the engine (dizzy is clean, oil pressure sender is clean, oil cooler is clean, dipstick is clean, oil filler tube is clean, fan housing is clean) Also, there is no oil coming from the pushrod tubes, valve cover, taco plate, oil filter, drain bolt, or from where the engine meets the tranny.

What do you think? The cylinder? Hairline fracture in the case just above the cylinder? It seems, at this point, the only way we can make a more accurate assessment is to remove the engine again, remove all the tin, remove the head and get a closer look at the cylinder?? I am perplexed yet again....Please, any advice or council will be greatly appreciated. Thanks


WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK????

Thanks

teddy Smile


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Re: My leaky engine

Post by bumblebuggy on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:06 am

scratch Not all that familiar with the type four. Could be a crack in the case but I'd tripple check everything again. I lean towards oil cooler though.
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:11 am

bumblebuggy wrote:scratch Not all that familiar with the type four. Could be a crack in the case but I'd tripple check everything again. I lean towards oil cooler though.

Everything is quadruple checked at this point, and the oil cooler is brand new (I pressure tested it b4 i put it in) with brand new seals....I wish it were that simple....and I wasn't too familiar with T4's b4 all this started, but i can find my way around now Smile One positive out of this whole thing...thanx Smile
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by DOODLE BUGG on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:34 am

if you deside to pull it out and want to run it on a crank up stand i got one you can use to find the leak just give me a call or pm
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:45 am

DOODLE BUGG wrote:if you deside to pull it out and want to run it on a crank up stand i got one you can use to find the leak just give me a call or pm

Thanx! I'm sure i will take you up on that. I'm sure the engine will be coming out again this week sometime Smile
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by peregrine67 on Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:39 am

Treehive wrote:I'm sure the engine will be coming out again this week sometime Smile
Give me a call if you need another set of hands.
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by DOODLE BUGG on Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:31 pm

just pm or call i will help you any way i can
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:26 am

Thanks for all the offers for help! I really appreciate that! But I had to get started last nght....if i'm not driving this bus by March, i might have a "I need to drive my bus emotional breakdown that could lead to excessive drinking" Wink Here is an update of the work done last night....

Well, a friend and i dropped the engine last night, stripped the tin, removed the fan shroud, and discovered the general area that the oil appears to be coming from. It is flowing down to the left of the oil pressure sending unit, but it is not the source. The oil cooler was clean and no oil is leaking from the seals. Also, it was mostly clean around the dizzy, but there was some residue....I think it flowed down there. The oil breather gasket was SATURATED with oil as well as the oil breather tube (i don't know if this is normal) however, it will be the next thing that I tackle after I pressure wash the top of the case to remove all oil residue. I really want it to be the oil breather gasket, but i expected, if that is the case, for there to me more oil residue. Could a oil saturated oil breather tube and oil breather gasket be the culprit? What would be the best way to seal the hell out of the oil breather? I will post some pics when I get home tonight. Thanks everyone!.....trouble shooting, trouble shooting, trouble shooting!


One quick question? Is is safe for me to put the engine back in the bus and run it without the tin? I have a feeling that will be the only way to solve this perplexing issue.

thansk

teddy
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by fluxcap on Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:58 am

Treehive wrote:
One quick question? Is is safe for me to put the engine back in the bus and run it without the tin? I have a feeling that will be the only way to solve this perplexing issue.

You talking about just for testing purposes, or to drive it around like normal? Just doing short runs for testing purposes, I think you'll be fine, but I probably wouldn't do actual road driving for extended periods without the tin.


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Re: My leaky engine

Post by bumblebuggy on Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:06 am

I wouldn't let it run much more than a minute. But a quick start and rev shouldn't kill it. Try cranking it by hand or just running the starter after you clean it to see if moisture is developing.
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:28 am

fluxcap wrote:
Treehive wrote:
One quick question? Is is safe for me to put the engine back in the bus and run it without the tin? I have a feeling that will be the only way to solve this perplexing issue.

You talking about just for testing purposes, or to drive it around like normal? Just doing short runs for testing purposes, I think you'll be fine, but I probably wouldn't do actual road driving for extended periods without the tin.


Yeah, I was just talking about running it (not driving it)....it seems that without the tin in place, once i run it, if it is the oil breather, I will be able to plainly see the oil flow with my head shoved in the engine compartment....I don't think we would even need to run it for more than a minute or two and rev it up to expose the leak....I think we are getting real close....and a huge POSITIVE, if I can't find the leak, Bear has a loaner engine to give me while he troubleshoots the leak! cheers
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Bugman114 on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:46 pm

I've run a few T1 engines in the car with nothing at all but the carb and dizzy on top, before just to see where leaks were comming from. no more then a minute tho. (no fanshroud, alternator, tins, etc.). i had two box fans pointed at it tho, just to be on the safe side. It won't hurt anything, and you should be able to find the problem within a few seconds anyway. this is what i'm about to do to my 2074cc motor. I'm going thru a quart of oil every 2 hours of driving now Shocked .
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:43 am

So I took my engine back to Bear last night and we tore down the driver's side. I had already stripped it of all the tin and exhaust. So we took the head off and removed the cylinders, and found what I F**KING HOPE is the problem. The lip on the case where the #4 cylinder sits had a small speck of metal sticking out (like a teeny tiny thorn). There was also a small depression. These two factors could
be causing the cylinder to leak. So we removed said metal speck, rubbed the surface a bit, and used some kind of sealant (red goop) before we put her back together (I can't remember the name of the sealant, but Bear seems to think it will work)....anywho, if this doesn't fix the problem, both Bear and I believe it would have to be a fracture in the case that we cant see with the naked eye.

Regardless, Bear has assured me that if this does not fix it, he will use one of his other cases and take the guts out of my engine and swap with the new/used case. Also, he has a complete runner that I can use in the interum so I can make it to Springfest next month....I'm putting the engine back in this weekend, so I'll keep everyone posted....peace

teddy
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by peregrine67 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:49 am

Give me a shout if you need a hand putting it back in.
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by meinvw on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:00 am

Good luck with it. You cannot deal with anyone as good as Phil. It sounds to me like it would be the cooler or pressure switch but you guys covered that.
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:11 pm

The engine leak is FIXED cheers Its on like donkey kong! geek
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Grifspop on Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:01 pm

Fantastic!! I know that was buggin the S@#$%^ out of you!
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by peregrine67 on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:11 pm

Treehive wrote:The engine leak is FIXED cheers Its on like donkey kong! geek

bounce Yee Haw!!! bounce
Looking forward to seeing ya on the road.
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by LB Bedwell on Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:22 pm

still going strong? I have mine out of my 74 now for the same reason, and discovered and original build on the motor so going to make the trip to see Bear also, sounds like the best around on the type 4s
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:45 am

LB Bedwell wrote:still going strong? I have mine out of my 74 now for the same reason, and discovered and original build on the motor so going to make the trip to see Bear also, sounds like the best around on the type 4s

Yeah bro. Engine is running strong. Type IV main bearings are hard to come by these days, so I suggest getting it done as soon as you can. It took me a week to track some down so Bear could start the rebuild.

The engine initially gave me a headache with the leaks, but Bear kept working with me till the problem was fixed. I definitely recommend him for a low budget rebuild. His $950-1200 range blows every other estimate I got out of the water. Most in the Atl area wanted at least $4K for a rebuild and Raby's kit is even more than that. Good luck
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by peregrine67 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:37 am

Treehive wrote:His $950-1200 range blows every other estimate I got out of the water. Most in the Atl area wanted at least $4K for a rebuild and Raby's kit is even more than that. Good luck

Yeah I got the $4K+ quote from a local shop too. I just took it as a hint that he really didn't want to do it so I did it myself. If I'd have know Bear would do it for around $1K I would have gone that route.
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by ASBug on Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:14 am

Treehive wrote:The engine leak is FIXED cheers Its on like donkey kong! geek
What was actually leaking?
KC
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:26 am

The oil pressure sending unit, the oil cooler, and the #4 cylinder. It was ultimately the cylinder that caused the most trouble in terms of diagnostics. It was hard as hell to determine if the oil was actually coming form the jug and every forum i visited informed me that leaks at the cylinder are very rare....i call bs on that...it was a simple fix really though....just had to drop the engine, strip the tin, remove the fan shroud, remove the drivers side head, the #3 and 4 cylinders came off, and some sealant on the lip where the jug meets the case, and whalla...no more leak.

Of course, that is an oversimplification of the process which actually took several engine drops over 6 months to diagnose and repair...fun stuff Smile
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by Treehive on Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:29 am

peregrine67 wrote:
Treehive wrote:His $950-1200 range blows every other estimate I got out of the water. Most in the Atl area wanted at least $4K for a rebuild and Raby's kit is even more than that. Good luck

Yeah I got the $4K+ quote from a local shop too. I just took it as a hint that he really didn't want to do it so I did it myself. If I'd have know Bear would do it for around $1K I would have gone that route.

That's awesome! I would love to have another type IV to split and rebuild....almost grabbed one, but a pet emergency required all the extra bread i had....
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Re: My leaky engine

Post by peregrine67 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:14 am

I think Tim Baker still has a runing type IV motor for sale. I'd like to get it but considering mine is now running fine I can't quite justify the cost just to have a spare.
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